Shut up, TED.
Okay…
I was going to bring you up to speed on another really terrific ISBU project I’m involved in, but TED… Well, we all know how TED is. He’ll whine and cajole and then ask you so many questions that you end up writing an entire post about them.
So… yet another year of RR posts will wind to an end…
… as I’m writing an entire post to address TED and his Four Thousand and One questions…
And then, I’m gonna see about getting him transferred to Guam.
Ted said (in a rather lengthy comment to a post, no less…)
:
Note: The formatting is mine… the rest of the nonsense is TED’s. Gawd’s breath, I just hope he’s better with an M4 than he is with that infernal keyboard of his…
That said… don’t blame ME… ![]()
Okay, here we go… again;
Ted “hunts and pecks”;
Happy….uh, Merry….Crap, forget it! Back to work!
So reading and catching up has my questioner going again. Time to ask da man.
Psst, thats YOU Alex. Yeesh.
When starting at phase line alpha, Ronin insists on sandblasting and floor removal. Stop me when I’m wrong, ok?
Editors note; Um… dude, you’re almost always wrong.
No, not YET…I’m just starting! Crimony!
I suppose my first question would be which would you say would last longer and require the least long term maintenance. Painted exposed ISBU walls or some form of siding? Say for argument purposes Hardi-panel t-111 looking fiber cement board (primed and painted of course).
Editors note; Um… you know.. sooner or later they’re gonna go out behind the PX looking for that siding and you’re gonna be going to the brig.
Now hoping your gonna say the Corton siding wins hands down I venture behind the curtain to ask Mr Wizard an idea he normally cringes at.Inside insulation.Feeling somewhat safe since you didn’t eat “Cold in Wyoming” as a snack I will venture this question and hope for similar fortune.
Editors note; Yeah, but I LIKE those guys…
First, YES! I do understand that insulating inside eats space like a fat kid in the doughnut shop.
Got it! Roger!
Si’! Da! So….Now I’m confused…ur, more confused.
Editors note; And that should surprise me… why? ‘)
If the outside of the ISBU is more durable, weather and disaster resistant than its more traditional counterparts how do we take advantage of that if we insulate/add siding to the exterior?
*ducks and scans for thrown shoes*
Yes, I’m looking for the cake and eating it too.So to that end here is my thought.
What if one had 2 40′ containers set on piers, para to each other say 16 feet in between. That gives roughly what, a lil over 1200 sq feet? Now if you spray in your insulation (closed cell poly)is there a difference between sparying and the panels used above as far as “R-value”?? I
suppose my reasoning is sorta that maybe by maintaining the containers integrity as much as possible and minimizing the stick framing required that it would maxamize the atributes of the container? Not having to repaint faded siding or replace siding that was damaged via say fire or high wind seems a good idea, right?
And since its just me, huge space is not really needed. Not saying I have any desire to build a tiny home or hobbit dwelling but maybe something reasonable.
So in your opinion and knowing that some loss in interior space would be acceptable, which makes more sense…inside or outside insulation? Which would you say costs more to do?
Thanks Alex!
Argh… where do I start? Oy… that TED is making me nutzo…
Okay.
Pour pilings and embed steel in them to weld containers to.
Drop ISBUs on pilings.
WITH A TRACTOR AND A FORKLIFT, TED! WHAT ARE YOU, NUTS?
(Moron was strapping on a hernia belt. Oy…)
Cut out your walls FIRST. No sense cleaning up metal you ain’t using indoors. Use that removed CORTEN steel corrugation OUTSIDE for shutters, covered porches and stuff like that there.
Now. start thinking about places you’ll actually BE.
(You’re asking yourself why I don’t frame everything in, right here and now, right? Wait for it…)
First, ISBUs are painted with this concoction called “anti-fouling paint”. It’s nasty stuff. It has to be to hold up to Mother Nature continually trying to kick it’s um… er… derriere. ![]()
See? I can be “PC”. Now excuse me while I go wash my mouth out with soap. That PC crap leaves an aftertaste…
Now where was I? Oh yeah… Ted… again… Oy.
Anti-fouling paint. You need to render it harmless in places where you’ll come into contact with it.
That means sandblasting. And after you get all that crap sandblasted off (Oh my… the fun you will have… oy!) you need to carefully inspect your containers for cracked welds, or other imperfections that can now be easily fixed.
You want to sandblast all the lips areas of your containers too, on the inside AND outside. It’s an easy way to check for cracks and defects and this way you don’t have to fight the floor to do it.
Why do this?
Well, because a smart camper welds angle iron onto the side rails to carry his floor decks and SIPs roof panels, that’s why. You really want to breathe that anti-fouling paint while you try to weld to it? Really?
You can also get under the boxes to apply SPF to the bottom of them, if you want to.
Once you’ve made your repairs (remember that mild steel and Corten steel aren’t good neighbors so choose your materials carefully) it’s time to cover that metal back up.
Save yourself some time and trouble and use a material called RUSTGRIP.
It’s the only coating/paint/concoction that is made by SPI (the rascals that make Supertherm) that I use often.
Funny, I was just having this conversation the other day…
So, at the risk of repeating myself:
For the record;
AFTER you sandblast all the crap off (including the heavily leaded paint that you’d never want your kids or the elderly to be around…) you (at the very least) Rust-Grip them. Rust-Grip is a one-part polyurethane coating that combines with atmospheric moisture to cure. Upon curing, RUSTGRIP provides corrosion protection.
From the SPI doc’s which I’ve also quoted elsewhere here somewhere (I forget where, like a couple of hundred posts ago);
Seal virtually any surface and protect it against corrosion, weather and physical wear with Rust Grip®. Rust Grip® is a three-coats-in-one system that acts as a primer, intermediate, and topcoat with a single application.
Rust Grip® is a metallic-based, moisture-cure polyurethane encapsulating coating designed to coat and seal air, moisture, and minerals out of surfaces. Rust Grip® stands up to acids, salts and caustic materials with no loss of strength! For EPA VOC standards, Rust Grip® falls under the metallic pigmented coating category. Rust Grip® is 414 grams/liter VOC. (California limit of 500 grams/liter.Benefits of Rust Grip®:
- Fast Working – Rust Grip® begins its cure cycle within an hour, penetrating and swelling to seal surface pores.
- Versatile – Rust Grip® protects steel, aluminum, concrete, wood, fiberglass, and lead-based paints. It is excellent for minimally prepared surfaces.
- Class A Fire Coating – In case of fire, Rust Grip® will help to prevent spread of, and will not contribute to, the burn.
- Strong and Lasting – Rust Grip® has a 10+ year lifespan on substrates under normal conditions and strengthens surfaces to 6780 psi (473 bar).
While you can shoot it on, most people roll it on. Apply two coats. Wait about three hours between coats. Voila. Instant encapsulation and protection. It’ll fully cure in about a week to ten days.
And, you can indeed paint over it so that you get that designer shade of pink you’re craving… we wouldn’t want that container to clash with your tutu… TED. ![]()
Wait about a week first. We found it works best if the stuff starts to fully cure before you coat it with something besides profanity.
And yes… there ARE other materials that will do this “seal and encapsulate” process. Rustgrip is just easy to find and it works right out of the can. Why change horses if you have a good one already?
All you’re doing is creating a primed and encapsulated surface area, just waiting for whatever you’ll do next.
In TEDs case, it’s packing for Guam…
Okay, maybe not.
You now have containers ready for the next step.
(We’ll all assume that TED removed those nasty pesticide ridden floor panels long before he picked up those boxes to plant up in the air on the pilings. Or I will personally find my way to his house and kick him all the way back to Iraq. Right TED? That’s right… snap that salute, soldier.)
IMHO (Yeah, like I’m ever REALLY humble) in TEDs case, it should go something like this:
He’ll use wood. Dollars to donuts, he’ll use wood. So, that ‘s the route I’ll take;
Deck between your boxes, and create your floorspace. Close it in by building your framed walls fore and aft. Create your rough opening for glazing and doors… TED.
(Look, you gotta guide TED by the nose, or he’ll screw it up… trust me on this.)
NOW frame your wall cavities for your SPF and insulation.
WHAT? “SPF AND insulation?” What the he-double-L am I talking about?
Shut up, TED. Keep reading.
And stop making that face at the monitor, Your face will freeze like that. Trust me when I tell you that you didn’t win any genepool at work, and you can’t afford it.
The best thing in the world about SPF is that it does three or four jobs with one application.
- You get a vapor barrier.
- You get a moisture barrier.
- You get great r-values out of it.
- AND… you get some rack and shear” help, too.
But wait… there’s more;
You get a big bill from the guy you bought the SPF from. It’s more expensive. Sure, it does more (and in my opinion it’s worth it) but it’s gonna cost you.
And TED is “one a those guys” who sells boiled peanuts by the side of the road when the traffic lights turn. He looks into your window all sad and stuff, rolling his big puppydawg eyes, so you’ll buy his styrofoam cup fulla whatever the heck that crap is…
I have it on good authority that he counts pennies. In fact, he counts them so often that even the old ones are all shiny again from all the handling.
SO… we’re gonna take another road…
The road into “Cheapville”…
(And for those of you who don’t know… TED is one of my pals who is trying to build a home for himself inbetween bouts of serving his country (so we can all sit here safe and sound and shoot our mouths off) while he dodges bullets and other implements of destruction. So, I’m gonna help him build the best home possible, for the lowest amount of money we possibly can.)
Okay… SPF is cool, cool, cool. But it costs more.
So… why not use the SPF (say about an inch of it) to actually coat the inside and even the floors (even the ones that you decked into your boxes).
YES… TED. I realize that will only give you an r7.
But what if I follow that up with a cheaper insulation product, like rigid polyiso foam? Slabbed up and stuffed into the cavities (or floor cavities) on top of that SPF, you’re gonna get about r5.6 an inch. And, it’s WAY cheaper. You can even find if for free on FreeCycle and CraigsList.
You just gotta go get it and haul it off.
In a 2×6 framed wall, you get about 5″ of cavity to stuff with “toasty goodness”. So, you can easily accomplish R values in the range of r28 (or even a bit more) depending on what PolyIso board you use.
Note that this works with 2×4 framed walls too. You have just over 3″ to work with, right?
You’ll achieve R values of about R18, easy.
Is R18 enough for Los Angeles? Yep. But is it enough for Colorado or Wyoming? NOPE.
Go big, or go home… to somebody else’s home. At least that one might be warm when Jack Frost is trying to kick your… um…er.. here we go again…
Yes, you’ll lose some R value to your doors and glazing. However, you’ll have a really easy time of insulating your walls and any idiot can do it – including TED…
… provided he doesn’t cut himself on the knife he uses to trim the rigid insulation to fit.
Now, all you need is a toasty SIP roof (go as big as you can afford… R40 or better, TED) and you have your insulated, weathered in shelter…
And best of all… you still have some extra money left in your pockets…
TED… Once you’re weathered in, you can work thru the winter in spite of all the snow and inclement weather and not have a care in the world, except the driving distance to the nearest emergency room when you either electrocute yourself on the welder or cut yourself with a skillsaw…
(Man, I still can’t believe they actually issued YOU a weapon…)
Now… for the exterior.
In TEDs case, he should just leave it alone. That anti-fouling paint covering up those Corten Steel panels is gonna last a long time. First, it’s OUTSIDE. It’s not gonna hurt him. It’ll offgas into the air.
And he’s already like… um… braindead. SO I doubt it will hurt him.
Yes, TED. The Corten Steel walls will oxidize. It’s part of their charm.
In fact, I spray them with a baking soda concoction I created that will age them to a cool “camo-ish…color” that will blend the boxes into the treeline hue.
(Unless the idiot bought BLUE boxes…)
Um… Ted… you did, didn’t you? You bought BLUE boxes… Man, there is no helping some knuckledraggers…
And NO! You can’t just shoot latex over “Anti-fouling paint”. It will bubble and blister like mad. So, why cause more work for yourself. I mean, it’s not like TED is gonna have any neighbors. Have you listened to TED?
Can you imagine living next door to him? I didn’t think so.
So, I’d just let Mother Nature do her thing on the outside of those boxes and use them to really hammer home the;
“I’m that nut who lives in the cargo containers down the road…” vibe.
That’ll keep the vacuum cleaner salesman off your porch.
Seriously TED… I’m glad you’re home safe and reasonably sound. I was gonna have to go find you and give you a severe beating, otherwise.
Now I gotta go look for an old boot I can throw at TED. More later…
G_D Bless TED, America and all of you…
Happy New Year!
Note: No peanuts or vacuum cleaner salesmen were harmed in the writing of this post.



























People just Yelled at ME!!! ME!?!